Changes to Grading and Staff Bonuses
- Thread starter Several Zombies
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Abbey Rose
Transpositively Euphoric
I honestly think this is a great decision.
For one, the old system has been in there since we had connection. Now connection was a mostly useless thing, but it did keep people who got most of their points from grading from getting too too far above the graded, since you could not apply most bonuses to it, and it was the stat that determined Shikai, awakening, bankai, and all that fancy stuff. With its removal, the grading bonus became infinitely more valuable, seeing as how it was a direct form of power and kai strength. It went from a decent boost in rei, to a literal extra 4000 words of points, and 6000 if you had both staff and grading. That's scary, from the eyes of someone who does not write that much, and probably the eyes of people who write normal amounts, too.
For another, with the ability to get it without writing, it takes a lot of pressure off a grader. Not everyone updates every week, myself vastly included. And some of these people are the usual graders. Usually, if a grader did not write, then they would shove the duties off on someone else to keep those points from being wasted. This person probably did not know about it until the Sunday or Monday that they entered chat, and would have to scramble to find and read absolutely everything that their group had posted throughout the week. Now, even if the grader did not write, they can still grade and receive a bonus, and will only get other people to grade for them if they genuinely do not have he time to grade, allowing the age old question of "who's grading?" have a more consistent answer.
And on the "irregular" payment, I looked at the dates that Will said it had been updated, and the furthest it was was about 23 days. Now, while that seems like a long time, it really is not. Staff only has to work once every 14 days at most, and that never feels like a long time to get reviewed. Also keep in mind that said 14 day restriction is only for the 1-10 submissions that accumulate over time, while everyone is getting kan all the time. I'm pretty sure that if I was not as lazy as I was, I could look through the achievements thread and find a great deal of kan that I am owed.
As for "disingenuous," I'm afraid I don't see how this is any less sincere than the old reward. Kan is less direct power, but more flexible, letting you buy kidou slots, item slots, resubs, credits, collab bonuses, stat changes, and fun little items. If you really want more rei, than 100 kan gets your secondary PC 1000-10,000 more reiatsu, allowing you to gain even more from the new bonus (well, once, but thats over a month of old bonus into one week.)
For one, the old system has been in there since we had connection. Now connection was a mostly useless thing, but it did keep people who got most of their points from grading from getting too too far above the graded, since you could not apply most bonuses to it, and it was the stat that determined Shikai, awakening, bankai, and all that fancy stuff. With its removal, the grading bonus became infinitely more valuable, seeing as how it was a direct form of power and kai strength. It went from a decent boost in rei, to a literal extra 4000 words of points, and 6000 if you had both staff and grading. That's scary, from the eyes of someone who does not write that much, and probably the eyes of people who write normal amounts, too.
For another, with the ability to get it without writing, it takes a lot of pressure off a grader. Not everyone updates every week, myself vastly included. And some of these people are the usual graders. Usually, if a grader did not write, then they would shove the duties off on someone else to keep those points from being wasted. This person probably did not know about it until the Sunday or Monday that they entered chat, and would have to scramble to find and read absolutely everything that their group had posted throughout the week. Now, even if the grader did not write, they can still grade and receive a bonus, and will only get other people to grade for them if they genuinely do not have he time to grade, allowing the age old question of "who's grading?" have a more consistent answer.
And on the "irregular" payment, I looked at the dates that Will said it had been updated, and the furthest it was was about 23 days. Now, while that seems like a long time, it really is not. Staff only has to work once every 14 days at most, and that never feels like a long time to get reviewed. Also keep in mind that said 14 day restriction is only for the 1-10 submissions that accumulate over time, while everyone is getting kan all the time. I'm pretty sure that if I was not as lazy as I was, I could look through the achievements thread and find a great deal of kan that I am owed.
As for "disingenuous," I'm afraid I don't see how this is any less sincere than the old reward. Kan is less direct power, but more flexible, letting you buy kidou slots, item slots, resubs, credits, collab bonuses, stat changes, and fun little items. If you really want more rei, than 100 kan gets your secondary PC 1000-10,000 more reiatsu, allowing you to gain even more from the new bonus (well, once, but thats over a month of old bonus into one week.)
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Time Lady Katie
The Lily Girl
As is typical, my words were taken out of their initial meaning and used to paint me as someone trying to make a mad and self-serving grab for power - another reason that I feel I am not a valued member of this community. So I'll say it again, since you all seem more interested in what you think I said than what I actually said.
I would rather eliminate grading and staff rewards altogether. I feel their reduction when clearly the GMs provide only tangential support for the new bonuses they themselves create is disingenuous and am encouraging a total elimination of bonuses rather than a bonus the GMs are not willing or able to support. The roles staff and graders play is essential to the continued operations of the RP; if they won't do it for that reason alone they shouldn't be doing it at all. If people insist on mischaracterizing my responses, I am perfectly willing to forego all bonuses from today on, and invite my fellow graders and staff members to do the same.
I would rather eliminate grading and staff rewards altogether. I feel their reduction when clearly the GMs provide only tangential support for the new bonuses they themselves create is disingenuous and am encouraging a total elimination of bonuses rather than a bonus the GMs are not willing or able to support. The roles staff and graders play is essential to the continued operations of the RP; if they won't do it for that reason alone they shouldn't be doing it at all. If people insist on mischaracterizing my responses, I am perfectly willing to forego all bonuses from today on, and invite my fellow graders and staff members to do the same.
Abbey Rose
Transpositively Euphoric
But, again in only my opinion, the complete removal of bonuses is another step in the wrong direction.
We give out these bonuses to people who go the extra mile not so they will do their job, but because they do their job. It's one of our ways of saying thank you, and to congratulate someone for going above and beyond what they have to do. They could be just a minimalist like me, who only puts a very small amount of effort into this rp (which it shows, I've been 7k for like 2 years now,) but instead they took upon themselves to do more than they had to.
Its why we have consec bonus, and why they have division bonus. For people who do more, who put a lot of effort into this rp to make it one of the best forum based rp's on the net. This is just another way of showing that, but in a different way, since this bonus is more consistent and used to be higher than almost all the other bonuses.
This isn't a boring desk job, where people only work because they are paid. This is volunteer work, like working in a soup kitchen, where at the end of the shift, the homeless you've been feeding ask you to come sit with them and tell stories. You don't do it because you want the stories, you do it because you want to help, and they tell you the stories because you helped, not so you will help again. Its their way of saying thank you, just like how I believe staff bonus should be, and how the kan payment system will make it. (again, this is my opinion.)
I'm sorry if we have misinterpreted your words, Katie, but if what you're saying is to eliminate the bonuses altogether, then I'm afraid that I have to disagree.
We give out these bonuses to people who go the extra mile not so they will do their job, but because they do their job. It's one of our ways of saying thank you, and to congratulate someone for going above and beyond what they have to do. They could be just a minimalist like me, who only puts a very small amount of effort into this rp (which it shows, I've been 7k for like 2 years now,) but instead they took upon themselves to do more than they had to.
Its why we have consec bonus, and why they have division bonus. For people who do more, who put a lot of effort into this rp to make it one of the best forum based rp's on the net. This is just another way of showing that, but in a different way, since this bonus is more consistent and used to be higher than almost all the other bonuses.
This isn't a boring desk job, where people only work because they are paid. This is volunteer work, like working in a soup kitchen, where at the end of the shift, the homeless you've been feeding ask you to come sit with them and tell stories. You don't do it because you want the stories, you do it because you want to help, and they tell you the stories because you helped, not so you will help again. Its their way of saying thank you, just like how I believe staff bonus should be, and how the kan payment system will make it. (again, this is my opinion.)
I'm sorry if we have misinterpreted your words, Katie, but if what you're saying is to eliminate the bonuses altogether, then I'm afraid that I have to disagree.
Time Lady Katie
The Lily Girl
Group Two has to be grade, kidou applications need to be approved. These things must happen for the RP to function. If I was getting a stipend that our culture deemed appropriate, so be it. Now, instead, I'll occasionally, at the whims of my betters, get some gift for doing this task, it cheapens my performance of my duties. It says to me that the stipend was too much for my efforts, but that without some stipend I would likely not exorcise my duties, therefore some trivial, meaningless offering will occasionally be made. I'd much prefer to feel like I had the respect of my fellow RPers, who I go above and beyond to accommodate, than some honey offering to make me do the things that I am more than happy to do without some dangled carrot. It makes me feel cheap and unappreciated.
Shadowwind
Araevis' Lead Ecologist
Your whole argue net hinges on the fact that you won't get the bonus. Which frankly is a load of crap as there is zero evidence that the kan won't be paid out. You complain about your words being taken out of context yet continue with the hyperbole as it stands the only thing we can say about kan is that the updates are not preschedualed and will has already explained the reasoning for that. I see no reason to continue the melodrama over not getting the kan when all evidence points to you receiving it.
I believe the nearly universal opinion from staff,graders, and normal rpers is that this serves a good middle ground of addressing powercreep while also rewarding staff. I really don't see the logic behind this idea that you won't get the stipend.
I believe the nearly universal opinion from staff,graders, and normal rpers is that this serves a good middle ground of addressing powercreep while also rewarding staff. I really don't see the logic behind this idea that you won't get the stipend.
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Sormeki
New Member
So I've read though this and I think I see the misunderstandings that are going on. Granted I may be wrong, and if so feel free to disregard this.
I think the concern Katie is trying to bring up is that there may, not necessarily right now, come a time when there are staff members that are upset that they aren't getting their bonus as regularly as others get their bonuses. Now, from what I've seen the current staff members and graders do in fact perform their duties because they enjoy doing it and want to see things continue running smoothly. I am sure that most members of staff don't care if they get a bonus or not, but it is a nice perk. However, while it may not be an issue now, this RP has seen quite a few changing of the guards, so to speak, in the past and so their may come a time in the future when a staff member, new or old, would like their bonus faster.
Now, as has been stated, it is important to remember that the bonus is just that, a bonus. It is something extra you get for doing what you do. It is not something you get to encourage you to do what you do. You can think of it like a thank you card. If you do something for someone and it takes them one week, two weeks, or more to send you a thank you card it doesn't diminish the value of that thank you. There are plenty of other things that need to be addressed prior to kan. Imagine, if you will, what would happen if kan was taken care of as a priority but kai's were reviewed only when their was time left. Everyone would have the kan to purchase that exotic sealed form, but no one would have their shikai.
Kan lets us have some neat things in game, but they are almost never things that majorly define the character or make them incredibly stronger. However, what the stuff from kan does do it add another level of creativity and individuality to characters which makes the RP more diverse and more enjoyable to play.
Which is why we are all here isn't it? Because we enjoy it? People who join the RP just because they like to post big numbers and badass characters on a forum tend not to stay around too long from what I've seen.
So, jumping back to the point, I don't think there is any staff members currently that would stop doing what they do if there was no bonus. However, offering no bonus is much like not sending a thank you card at all, to use that analogy again, some people might not care but eventually there will be one or two that will. It's up to each individual if they want to accept the kan or not. Bonuses are extra, you never have to accept them if you don't want to, but there is no shame in doing so. The bonus is a thank you from staff showing that they appreciate what you do. In a way, accepting it is a thank you back. It's like if someone comes up and gives you a compliment on what you are doing. You tell them thank you. You don't tell them, "Shove that compliment back up you ass, I have shit to review."
I think the concern Katie is trying to bring up is that there may, not necessarily right now, come a time when there are staff members that are upset that they aren't getting their bonus as regularly as others get their bonuses. Now, from what I've seen the current staff members and graders do in fact perform their duties because they enjoy doing it and want to see things continue running smoothly. I am sure that most members of staff don't care if they get a bonus or not, but it is a nice perk. However, while it may not be an issue now, this RP has seen quite a few changing of the guards, so to speak, in the past and so their may come a time in the future when a staff member, new or old, would like their bonus faster.
Now, as has been stated, it is important to remember that the bonus is just that, a bonus. It is something extra you get for doing what you do. It is not something you get to encourage you to do what you do. You can think of it like a thank you card. If you do something for someone and it takes them one week, two weeks, or more to send you a thank you card it doesn't diminish the value of that thank you. There are plenty of other things that need to be addressed prior to kan. Imagine, if you will, what would happen if kan was taken care of as a priority but kai's were reviewed only when their was time left. Everyone would have the kan to purchase that exotic sealed form, but no one would have their shikai.
Kan lets us have some neat things in game, but they are almost never things that majorly define the character or make them incredibly stronger. However, what the stuff from kan does do it add another level of creativity and individuality to characters which makes the RP more diverse and more enjoyable to play.
Which is why we are all here isn't it? Because we enjoy it? People who join the RP just because they like to post big numbers and badass characters on a forum tend not to stay around too long from what I've seen.
So, jumping back to the point, I don't think there is any staff members currently that would stop doing what they do if there was no bonus. However, offering no bonus is much like not sending a thank you card at all, to use that analogy again, some people might not care but eventually there will be one or two that will. It's up to each individual if they want to accept the kan or not. Bonuses are extra, you never have to accept them if you don't want to, but there is no shame in doing so. The bonus is a thank you from staff showing that they appreciate what you do. In a way, accepting it is a thank you back. It's like if someone comes up and gives you a compliment on what you are doing. You tell them thank you. You don't tell them, "Shove that compliment back up you ass, I have shit to review."
Chef Bryardee
King of Condiments
In all fairness, Kidou applications don't come along all that often. And other than that, there are five other graders that do their job without complaint or any expectation of a formal show of appreciation or respect.
This honestly should've been done a long time ago. Points added to your character come when you work to improve your character. That means writing and, in the case of consecutive and division bonuses, that means developing them often and superbly. Doing something that has nothing to do with your character's development (by that, I mean grading) and getting a hefty sum of points for doing so is ridiculous.
I could've complained a long time ago and said that it's completely unfair that I write a 4,000-word chapter, get a full grade or maybe a few points taken off, and some grader who only had to read a single, 2,000-word collaboration got the same 200 points that I got. If we're going by who puts in the most effort, is it the grader who reads my 4,000 words or is it me, the person that wrote them?
Rhetorical question: it's me.
By that logic, I should get a bonus for the simple fact that I wrote on top of the base points.
But no one expects that. I don't. No one here does. The only compensation I expect for writing is the points on my grade. And even if this RP didn't function on points, I wouldn't expect anything anyways. I do this---we all do this---because we want to. It's not a job, it's an opportunity.
Time Lady Katie
The Lily Girl
And again someone assumes intent I don't have.
I'm not opposed to removing the bonuses. I'm calling the kan what it is: a mildly insulting half-measure. If you want to remove bonuses, remove them completely.
I'm not opposed to removing the bonuses. I'm calling the kan what it is: a mildly insulting half-measure. If you want to remove bonuses, remove them completely.
lilmangoseed
Mango Queen
Hi.
On that note, I'll update kan at some point today.
EDIT... Or whenever there's something to update.
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Katie, let me make this clear, both as a long-term member of the RP and as a GM.
Bonuses are, and have always been - as others have said - a token of our appreciation for staff member's contributions to the game. It's not a 'carrot on a stick', it's not some hackneyed pittance that we're doling out on a whim. It's a 'thank you' for doing the essential work staffers do. If we as GMs could take it all on, I'm sure we would.
But that's just not how things work. Both Will and I lead busy lives. We're normal people, too. So we can't take on the burden of every aspect of staffing, and as such need to ask the general members for help. Those who answer the call, and as Grif said, go above and beyond what's required of them are the people who make the RP function as smoothly as it does.
The Kan bonus was conceived as a way to thank them for that, without causing a grievous imbalance in actual gameplay.
Your argument seems to be based on the premise that we somehow don't care about our staffers, despite the very existence of the bonus being contrary to that sentiment. You seem to believe that we eschew our responsibilities and that the bonus that we conceived will somehow go unpaid despite there being copious evidence to the contrary.
If you're not going to listen to the facts, then I don't really know what else to say. You're making problems where there aren't any. There's no insult to be had here. I doubt you've ever once felt insulted when someone said 'thank you' to you in real life, so why are you so offended now?
And as for everyone 'misinterpreting' your posts.
This needs to stop here. Every time an argument breaks out, you insinuate that everyone is against you and that you don't feel valued as a member of the community. That couldn't be farther from the truth, and yet you continue to insist that everyone has something against you when we don't. Frankly, it's blow-ups like these that might push someone away from you. Otherwise, the notion that everyone somehow dislikes you is completely one-way.
You're stirring up drama where there's none to be had, and it needs to stop. And I say this for your sake, as a fellow member and a friend. Don't be a drama-llama.
We understand your concerns. They have been noted. The overarching opinion is that Kan bonuses are fine, and are not, in fact, offensive. Despite the evidence given in this thread, if you still feel grievously insulted by our attempts to thank you for your time and effort as a valued member of the community, then by all means go without. It's up to you whether or not you want to accept the Kan. We can't force you to.
Bonuses are, and have always been - as others have said - a token of our appreciation for staff member's contributions to the game. It's not a 'carrot on a stick', it's not some hackneyed pittance that we're doling out on a whim. It's a 'thank you' for doing the essential work staffers do. If we as GMs could take it all on, I'm sure we would.
But that's just not how things work. Both Will and I lead busy lives. We're normal people, too. So we can't take on the burden of every aspect of staffing, and as such need to ask the general members for help. Those who answer the call, and as Grif said, go above and beyond what's required of them are the people who make the RP function as smoothly as it does.
The Kan bonus was conceived as a way to thank them for that, without causing a grievous imbalance in actual gameplay.
Your argument seems to be based on the premise that we somehow don't care about our staffers, despite the very existence of the bonus being contrary to that sentiment. You seem to believe that we eschew our responsibilities and that the bonus that we conceived will somehow go unpaid despite there being copious evidence to the contrary.
If you're not going to listen to the facts, then I don't really know what else to say. You're making problems where there aren't any. There's no insult to be had here. I doubt you've ever once felt insulted when someone said 'thank you' to you in real life, so why are you so offended now?
And as for everyone 'misinterpreting' your posts.
This needs to stop here. Every time an argument breaks out, you insinuate that everyone is against you and that you don't feel valued as a member of the community. That couldn't be farther from the truth, and yet you continue to insist that everyone has something against you when we don't. Frankly, it's blow-ups like these that might push someone away from you. Otherwise, the notion that everyone somehow dislikes you is completely one-way.
You're stirring up drama where there's none to be had, and it needs to stop. And I say this for your sake, as a fellow member and a friend. Don't be a drama-llama.
We understand your concerns. They have been noted. The overarching opinion is that Kan bonuses are fine, and are not, in fact, offensive. Despite the evidence given in this thread, if you still feel grievously insulted by our attempts to thank you for your time and effort as a valued member of the community, then by all means go without. It's up to you whether or not you want to accept the Kan. We can't force you to.
Well, we could. We can force her to take all the Kan.
In all seriousness, though, the fact of the matter is that I'm a pretty straightforward person. If I'm not satisfied with the work you're doing, you'll know about it. I can recognize that timely updates are important, and I've said in this thread that I'll be working to rectify that. I spent over 5 hours on the road yesterday/today to drive to another state and pick up my sister at the airport at 1am, but I woke up and updated the Kan.
What I'm not going to do is say, "I'll update every Friday!" if I don't know whether I can.