Popping My Collar - Discussion

[Apeiron]

Vincent Angell 1:58 pm
I like how it's implied Hare is just going to share w/ everyone how he's affected by the curse

k3seraph 1:58 pm
I like how it's implied
You guys are actually going to get anywhere with the collars
8D

Vincent Angell 1:58 pm
I especially love how everyone is throwing out their curse going "this is embarrassing"
are or aren't?

k3seraph 1:58 pm
are
I didn't mistype
8D

Chaine82 1:59 pm
it'll happen
it might take several weeks

k3seraph 1:59 pm
I've got my own few theories on how this goes down

Vincent Angell 1:59 pm
Mmkay, the sentence just looked weird

Chaine82 1:59 pm
but it'll happen

k3seraph 1:59 pm
There were a few hints thrown around

Vincent Angell 1:59 pm
I must not have been around for any

k3seraph 1:59 pm
But I don't think you guys are going to get anywhere anytime soon

k3seraph 1:59 pm
Well they were put into the actual threads where the collars were featured

Vincent Angell 2:00 pm
You mean the HM thread?
like the*

k3seraph 2:01 pm
The chapter Will wrote

http://www.mangaden.net/forum/showthread.php?35436-PM-Week-207-Prometheus

hasereborn has entered the room. 2:03 pm
Chaine82 2:04 pm
i'm gettin the wrong hints from that

hasereborn 2:04 pm
treader im about to post my turn now

Vincent Angell 2:05 pm
Huh I guess hare was supposed to have a collar
Oh well

k3seraph 2:05 pm
Hare didn't just have a collar
He had shitloads of bands
Wrapped around his body


hasereborn 2:05 pm
yeah

k3seraph 2:05 pm
"Where the others had just the collar, Haresuno's body was criss-crossed with black straps, from his throat to his wrists and down to his ankles."

hasereborn 2:05 pm
ouch

k3seraph 2:05 pm
Anywho, first clue that gave me a jumping point was this:
"There was a tinge of madness, the mark of the Vasto Lorde, threaded throughout the black bands and thus into the souls of the afflicted."

Vincent Angell 2:06 pm
Yeah I've just been writing the bands and saying no collar

k3seraph 2:06 pm
Obviously the collars are rooted into the soul in such a way that physical death would mean nothing

Chaine82 2:06 pm
kaede got the collar off

k3seraph 2:06 pm
And died

Vincent Angell 2:06 pm
^

k3seraph 2:06 pm
To remove them physically would result in death
Quite possibly in the same way that a Quincy arrow kills a soul

Vincent Angell 2:07 pm
So what?
We hvae to go to our inner worlds to remove them
?

k3seraph 2:07 pm
So the first clue is that the collars might be rooted in the Soul Sleep
The only source of direct reiryoku a shinigami has

Chaine82 2:07 pm
soul sleep?

Chaine82 2:07 pm
new terms for doc

hasereborn 2:07 pm
you not the only one

k3seraph 2:08 pm
http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Chain_of_Fate
Also known as this

Vincent Angell 2:08 pm
In a Shinigami, the Saketsu acts as a boost to spiritual power, in conjunction with the Hakusui (魄睡, Soul Sleep), the source of spiritual power.

Tod Kenly 2:08 pm
soul sleep is the place on a shini's body where their reiatsu pools...

hasereborn 2:08 pm
ahhhhhhh

Chaine82 2:08 pm
iiiiinteresting

k3seraph 2:09 pm
Thus far all the collars have had effects rooted in the user's specialty - with Haresuno being the only given exception

hasereborn 2:09 pm
oh tod im posting my turn now sorry about that

Tod Kenly 2:09 pm
kewl

Vincent Angell 2:09 pm
Yay for unique curses

Tod Kenly 2:09 pm
its fine bro, turn whenever you get a chance XD

Vincent Angell 2:09 pm
Actually
No

Vincent Angell 2:09 pm
In a way it's tied to Hare's specialty

k3seraph 2:09 pm
Moreso the curse is determined exactly by what actions the people were undertaking prior to being given them
For instance -- Tsubaki, Kyuketsu and Ryoujin were all branishing their zanpakuto as their last action
Those who had released their shikai or bankai had their kai's affected
And those who didn't use them but were making use of kidou had that affected
So we know that the collars are: A) Rooted in the memory of their last acts of defiance against Prometheus

Vincent Angell 2:11 pm
So a possiblity is to go to the inner world, or the quincy route, or memory?

k3seraph 2:11 pm
And B ) That the collars are rooted in the soul

k3seraph 2:11 pm
Not quite, I'm not done just yet

Vincent Angell 2:11 pm
mk

k3seraph 2:12 pm
The next solid clue (and probably the most obvious one I thought about)
Was Prometheus' name
You know about the Greek tale of Prometheus, right?

Chaine82 2:12 pm
gave man fire

Vincent Angell 2:12 pm
Not a bit. I should have read up though

Chaine82 2:12 pm
had liver torn out by a harpy for eternity as punishment?

k3seraph 2:12 pm
Gave mortals the gift of fire and was punished by the Gods to eternal torment
Not a harpy but a hawk -- a minor detail

Chaine82 2:12 pm
birdlike

k3seraph 2:12 pm
When you consider the overall message given by his name

Chaine82 2:13 pm
fiar?

k3seraph 2:13 pm
No
That Prometheus gave something that was exclusively the Gods -- to the mortals

Vincent Angell 2:13 pm
What are shinigami

Chaine82 2:14 pm
shinigami are the mortals, collars are fire?

k3seraph 2:14 pm
No
Shinigami are the Gods
The Gods of Death
The mortals...
Well...

Vincent Angell 2:14 pm
Well in this instance he kind of made them mortals

Chaine82 2:14 pm
whaaat. advents?

k3seraph 2:14 pm
Not necessarily
Quincy's are human as well
I'm looking at Quincy's as being the primary way to get rid of these

Chaine82 2:15 pm
too bad there's no more PCs

Vincent Angell 2:15 pm
So the quincy route was more or less accurate

k3seraph 2:15 pm
Their ability to affect the soul directly with their power -- coupled with the additional ability to stimulate reiryoku from the soul when lost
Would make a lot of sense with how the collars appear to function

hasereborn 2:15 pm
I still have mine a possible npc

mrduke32 2:16 pm
holy crap Raph

Bryan Hines (mrduke32) has entered the room. 2:16 pm
Valerodude 2:16 pm
you gonna be popular, Hase XD

Jonny Young (Valerodude) has entered the room. 2:16 pm
hasereborn 2:16 pm
lol

Chaine82 2:16 pm
i guess i could NPC mine

Vincent Angell 2:16 pm
Only problem
Is that Q arrows tend to kill shini
if hit

hasereborn 2:16 pm
lol

k3seraph 2:16 pm
Q Arrows kill whoever they tend to hit
If they're aimed properly, anyways

nateayerss 2:16 pm
Q arrows are badass

Nathan Spencer (nateayerss) has entered the room. 2:16 pm
mrduke32 2:16 pm
what about the thing Ryuken did to Ishida?

Nathan Spencer 2:17 pm
too bad there are no q PCs :-(

k3seraph 2:17 pm
Being struck in the Soul Sleep is a weird thing to handle

Chaine82 2:17 pm
it'd have to be done all by NPCs if at all

k3seraph 2:17 pm
Originally it seals the Soul Sleep -- blocking off all reiryoku

mrduke32 2:17 pm
is that where he hit him?

k3seraph 2:17 pm
But apparently there's an undefined physical and spiritual regime that one can undergo if their Soul Sleep is sealed

Arun Srinivasan 2:17 pm
aim an arrow at your neck

nateayerss 2:17 pm
what ryuken did to ishiday was bascially throw reishi at two points to reawaken his power

k3seraph 2:17 pm
Which results in it being reopened

Arun Srinivasan 2:17 pm
WHAT COULD GO WRONG

k3seraph 2:17 pm
Yes -- His Soul Sleep and Soul Chain

nateayerss 2:17 pm
Sev's NPC did the same to nathaniel to undo what Ciro had done

Vincent Angell 2:17 pm
I suppose it could work if in gigai, but no Q would help

Chaine82 2:18 pm
convincing is possible

k3seraph 2:18 pm
Don't get ahead of yourself
This is hard speculation, but nothing more

Chaine82 2:18 pm
of course there's also
which shini would come up with this
other than suddenly figuring it out

k3seraph 2:18 pm
I'd say exhaust the more readily approachable solutions before moving onto anything more convoluted
^
Don't throw metagaming into this

hasereborn 2:18 pm
hiren i am anticipating your next turn to be brutal

Chaine82 2:19 pm
the collars thread would probably have to finish up and fail before any Q-ing is done

Arun Srinivasan 2:19 pm
plus
you have to consider the fact

Chaine82 2:19 pm
it's most plausible for people to figure it out as they continue brainstorming

Arun Srinivasan 2:19 pm
how the hell are you going to get a Q to help you

Chaine82 2:19 pm
in fairness this involves shooting shinigami in the neck
Arun Srinivasan 2:19 pm "hey sorry about killing your family, friends and entire bloodlinage" Chaine82 2:19 pm it's potentially lethal k3seraph 2:19 pm Again -- getting ahead of yourself, really Arun Srinivasan 2:20 pm "you wanna help me get this collar off so I don't die?" Vincent Angell 2:20 pm "Care to give us a hand? We're kinda in a bind."

 

[Wayne]

Holy shit, brah.

 

[Pho]

Is there a way to remove the collars? Because I'd rather have informed people RPing uninformed PCs, than uninformed people RPing uninformed PCs, because that will just turn into a clusterfuck.

 

[Chef Bryardee]

Holy shit, brah.

It was like watching an episode of CSI... or the last five minutes of a Scooby Doo episode.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's not as simple as just killing Prometheus in order to relieve the collars...?

 

[Doc]

something tells me that if killing Prometheus (a goddamn vasto lorde) was "easy" this problem would have gone away long ago.

 

[Chef Bryardee]

something tells me that if killing Prometheus (a goddamn vasto lorde) was "easy" this problem would have gone away long ago.

Gd semantics... I mean that the solution isn't as straightforward as that; the solution isn't so obvious.

 

[Seamus]

Why not just reach your hands around them and take them off?

Simple almost always works.

 

[Redfin]

Person tried that already. It dead now.

 

[Isaaru]

Go back to Hueco Mundo. Find Prometheus. Whore him to take them off. He might want something in exchange from the Shinihoes.

 

[Several Zombies]

Many are the mysteries~

 

[Beaks]

Admittedly I stayed away from the Collar thread on purpose for a couple of reasons.

Reason one, as it was stated in chat this curse is affecting each of us in very personal ways, to varying degrees. In a sense, it's like an AA meeting. Everyone there is present for the same reason(s), but that doesn't mean it's any easier to talk about. Some of us see it as a very profound defeat, stemming far deeper than just falling against a superior foe, and talking about it/hypothesizing about it can be a very sore spot.

Reason two, Haresuno was already present in the thread, and that puts the collab at one Captain strong right out of the gate. The more of us that you throw into a logical brainstorming session just puts a bigger and bigger elephant in the room. However familiar you are or aren't with a certain Captain it is still a military organization and it tends to make things feel, well...wrong.

However, all that being said any of you who have characters that are familiar with Tsubaki...let's just say she knows a Quincy. And that Quincy may owe her a bit of a favor.

 

[K3]

It may do everyone some good to use this thread not as a one or two sentence discussion thread, but as a place to share any actual ideas by which the collars can be removed. It may be a bit overboard for the RP, but I'd say that presenting any ideas without any sound logic or evidence by which it could succeed would probably result in failure, and so should be held back.

That being said, one of my theories has been posted so I'll list another possibility here:

Assumptions:
1) Assume that the Collars are rooted in memory (as per the specifications of the curse)
2) Assume that their binding to the soul is managed in much the same way as a zanpakuto (being a limiter of power that can be released by the being controlling it)

Evidence:
1) The collars cannot be removed physically (i.e. taking them off with your hands)
2) The collars affect each individual in a unique fashion
3) The collars present no physical reaction even while distributing their curse
4) The source of power for the collars is madness

Conclusions:
1) The source of the collars' power is located in ones' Inner World.
2) Removing the collars would behave much the same way as releasing a zanpakuto - an unsealing of a portion of the soul to receive more power.
3) Each collar has a unique method of being removed.
4) These methods are rooted in the individual's memories associated with madness or insanity.

Solutions:
1) Entering one's Inner World to track down the manifestation of the collar(perhaps Prometheus himself) and find a way to destroy it.
2) Entering one's Inner World to search for traces of Prometheus' madness and(providing it is present) destroy it.

 

[Cad]

Figured it out. They are all still in Hueco Mundo.



Really, though, the inner world theory:

Kurohashi has no kai abilities/no connection to his inner world - as an NPC, it's not vital to the HD plot and I think he may have been the only one, but I am under the assumption that Will knew this when devising the collar scheme. If so, doing anything inner world wouldn't necessarily be the answer. If Will did not know this or knew having only one NPC without an expressed kai wasn't as important, then a connection with the inner world may be a possible solution.

I've been busy with work so I haven't been able to delve much into this but I've briefly looked back at things the same way Raph did. We should also note that the collars have no active effect - unless touched or enacted by the unique actions, they seem harmless. I'm not advocating anyone just let them be (as K is likely to do) but it's a symptom worth noting.

As mentioned before, the actions that correlate to activating the collar may be a reflection of what the reapers did in Hueco Mundo while under Prometheus blanket of madness. What were the shinigami doing in HM? They were trying to attacking/track the Hollow and Prometheus. What were they actually doing? Attacking each other. If the collars strip our characters of an ability that was used in HM, might it be linked to their attempts to harm the VL or each other?

 

[Time Lady Katie]

Cheese implied to me when I mentioned Popping my Collar to him that if our damned bounty ever finished (now on week three of waiting for Lin to take a turn) we'd have some concrete information to go on.

 

[Seamus]

if you're on week three of someone not posting, i say write a turn RPing her character and remove her from the fight/just play her character until the thread is over.

 

[Time Lady Katie]

I might suggest that to Cheese, though given the nature of the collab we'd probably need clearance from Will.

 

[Nutella]

Cheese implied to me when I mentioned Popping my Collar to him that if our damned bounty ever finished (now on week three of waiting for Lin to take a turn) we'd have some concrete information to go on.

Supposed to be, your bounty expired three days ago. I vm'd Cheese but he didn't reply.
Then again, yeah. ​

 

[Seamus]

I might suggest that to Cheese, though given the nature of the collab we'd probably need clearance from Will.

He said if the bounty doesn't finish by the end of the week, it will be closed. You should probably just write something.

 

[Time Lady Katie]

Supposed to be, your bounty expired three days ago. I vm'd Cheese but he didn't reply.
Then again, yeah. ​

I'm not sure it can. Again, that's up to Will. This was more plot than bounty, so...

 

[Pho]

If it was more plot then bounty, perhaps you should abandon the bounty so that you can continue the collab without a time limit.